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Subject: "Boiler Room #1 questions" 1 | 2 | Previous topic | Next topic
SteveFuryThu Jun-29-17 10:43 PM
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#55283, "Boiler Room #1 questions"
Thu Jun-29-17 10:48 PMby SteveFury

          

Hi.
I had opened a different thread about the coal bunker doors-
http://www.titanic-model.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=100&topic_id=55257&mesg_id=55257&page=
But I realized I'm going to have more questions to here's a general BR#1 thread.

I've made some corrections to my room.
*The ceiling is different- Angled coal bunkers "wings" now exist on the after end, separated in the middle for the piping.
*The framing & stringers are rebuilt with new designs at the shell plating and the after bulkhead K.
*Bunker door counterweights are removed.

Below is the reference for my room shape:



I've spent countless hours analyzing the fragmented images and came up with this conclusion regarding the center-of-the-room framing and wondered your thoughts:



TTSM suggests there was a line of four cast-iron stanchions. The two center ones form an upside down "Y" for a passageway between the boilers.
Notice the large red circle.
That looks like a row of the described stanchions at the splitting point. However, also look at the two smaller circles. Those also look like stanchions. If that's so then there are not 4 but 8 stanchion points in the room.
I wasn't quite sure so I went with the 4 and placed them at frame 25.

Folks seem to like the renders so here are a few recent:











Do you suppose those straight & curved vertical beams against the WTB K would have weight-lightening holes punched in them as the ones do along the shell plating?

Plumbing has started with the main steam feeds:


Thanks for looking!

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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Replies to this topic: Pages 1 | 2
SteveFuryFri Jun-30-17 08:02 AM
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#55285, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Well it looks like Photobucket now wants $300 to display images on other websites.

Sorry, I'll look into other sharing services and get these back up.

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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Ralph CurrellFri Jun-30-17 09:54 AM
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#55286, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 1


          

Hi Steve,

A Photobucket placeholder image was shown earlier, but your images now seem to be displaying okay for me. Nevertheless, it's probably worth exploring other options for storing your files.

Here are a few quick comments on your questions.

- There are two lines of stanchions, one at frame 25A and the other at 28A. As you guessed, the large red circle indicates where it splits into the inverted 'Y' shape.

- I'm still puzzling out the beams, but it seems there is only one 'I' beam (actually two channels back-to-back) at frame 25A. The other beams are of channel section, though the one at 28A is deeper than usual.

- The stiffeners on the watertight bulkhead should be vertical only. I don't think there were any horizontal elements except at the deck levels. The curved webs here did not have lightening holes.

I'll try to post more info, such as beam dimensions, when time permits.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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Scott AndrewsFri Jun-30-17 12:17 PM
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#55287, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

Ralph,

You see an image? I'm still getting that placeholder with the message "please update your account to enable 3rd party hosting," and this appear to be the case with ANY post with an embedded Photobucket image -- even the very old ones. These thieves apparently now want $39.95 per month; as far as I'm concerned, they can change their site name to "PhotoF**ket."

Regards,
Scott Andrews
TRMA Trustee

  

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Ralph CurrellFri Jun-30-17 12:46 PM
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#55288, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 3


          

Hi Scott,

It's weird, the images were working a couple of hours ago, and now back to the photobucket placeholder. I hope Steve can find a good alternative.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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Bill WestSat Jul-01-17 03:25 AM
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#55289, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Hi Steve, this is a good exploration of this room.

My tidbits:
-I think the aft cross bunkers are box shaped, not a sloping face. I think the triangular lines in the drawings are just internal gussets or are to do with the fore-aft girders. The frame 28A Y columns that Ralph mentioned support the inner forward corners of these aft cross bunkers.

-I agree with Ralph on the appearance of the aft bulkhead framing. The plan view scales the stiffening girders at 32" center to center. Putting that on the NMNI bulkhead photo suggests that the flanges are 13" wide.
-On the aft bulkhead I think the horizontal girder on the top of the curved columns is only as deep fore-aft as the gusset on the curved column's top. I think the gusset at the top of the straight girders is only part of the fore-aft girder in that area, that there is no horizontal girder involved.
-The vertical stiffeners above the horizontal girder scale at 6" deep and don't show any flare at the top or bottom. They are likely a light channel.

-The angled indent in the forward cross bunker for the uptakes is only as wide as the smokestack casing. The upper bunker wall the rest of the way to each side is vertical.

Bill

  

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SteveFurySun Jul-02-17 11:37 AM
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#55293, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jul-02-17 11:41 AMby SteveFury

          

I have signed up for a free Flickr account to see if they can host the images there.
Let me try:

I haven't had very much time in the past few days but I was able to implement a few of the modeling suggestions posted earlier:





Looks like I may be back in business.
I signed up for a free Flickr account and uploaded those images to my Camera Roll and made them public.
Then I clicked on them to display them, right click and copied the location and pasted it here.
Seems to work, at least for now.
-Steve

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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Ralph CurrellSun Jul-02-17 03:24 PM
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#55294, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 6
Wed Jul-05-17 08:45 AMby Ralph Currell

          

Hi Steve,

The Flickr images look good. I hope it turns out to be a viable alternative to Photobucket.

I've been digging into the bulkhead layout and have created a couple of drawings that I hope will be helpful. A certain amount of guesswork was needed in some areas, but I think it's approximately correct.

(Edited 3 July 2017 to remove the drawings. I've changed my mind on a couple of points, and will post corrected images in a later message. Sorry for the confusion.)

I realize looking at these that I omitted to show the level of the raised floor in the boiler room, but you should be able to pick that up from the TTSM plans. I hope these are useful. Let me know if anything is unclear I'll try to explain it.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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Bill WestTue Jul-04-17 01:15 AM
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#55297, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 7


          

Hi Ralph, those are/were (LoL) good drawings.
You've brought out a detail I've been missing. The Engineering drawings of the Olympic show gussets or brackets at the bottom of the aft bulkhead webs but the Britannic picture shows none. My guess is that this is a detail that was changed between the ships. Trying to lay your drawing over the Engineering floor plan also brought out that the webs are spaced at 33" not 32" as I had previously said. Lastly the web flanges are clearly much wider on the Britannic, I suspect they would be similar on the Olympic.

At the top of the center web I wonder if that is filled in as much as you suggest because there are a couple of pipes passing through here. The gusset between frames 27-28 may be the fore-aft girders under F deck, BR2 has a similar look.

Hi Steve, here's my go at the columns and beams in the room.
-each of the columns needs the inverted Y feet to allow walking between the boilers.
-in the aft row of columns the middle two don't show in the plan.
-underneath F deck the heavy forward fore-aft girders appear to be made of plate and are in line with smokestack casing rather than the inner columns
-the similar aft forward fore-aft girders are slightly inboard from the outer columns. I can't quite make sense of them
-I suspect there are light girders between the columns at the G deck level for supporting the catwalks





Bill

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

  

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Ralph CurrellTue Jul-04-17 07:52 AM
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#55298, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 8


          

Okay, here's my second try with the bulkhead drawings.




Bill, I've taken the location and size of the bulkhead webs from the iron plans on the assumption they'd be more accurate than those shown in 'Engineering'. The iron plans have problems of their own (distorted and illegible in places) so some guessing was unavoidable. I *think* that centre web is correct, but I'll look at it again.

I think Steve is correct that the outboard columns are straight rather than split (see TTSM vol.1 p.77). I can make out the aft 'Y' pillars on the 'Engineering' plan (or at least a circle where the pillar ought to be).

Regards,
Ralph

Attachment #1, (gif file)
Attachment #2, (gif file)

  

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SteveFuryTue Jul-04-17 02:45 PM
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#55300, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 9


          

Ralph and Bill you've been a HUGE help. Thank you very much.

I had some time to work on this today. I think I'm dialing this in.
Here is a cross section from my software. I highlighted a couple difficult to see things:



I'll need to cut some holes through the Z channel when it comes time to pipe the boilers. I'll fix the ugly texturing later.

Here's what I have thus far. The pipe sticking out of the starboard side is the feed for the dynamos:




I found this center the most difficult to figure out:




Boilers and center framing in place:


Thanks again.

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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Bill WestTue Jul-04-17 05:08 PM
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#55302, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 10


          

Hi Ralph.
I see my difficulty with the web spacing is that groups of the curved webs are evenly spaced but there are more exceptions than just the straight webs and the door. Do you have a consistent measure for the width over the flanges? Scaling off your drawing is suggesting that the width is less imposing than on the Britannic.

Good spotting about the outer columns not having Y bases, it's in The Shipbuilder pg45. I also see that in BR2 the deck E-G part of the column is not in line with the lower part. I take it that the aft inner BR1 columns rise between the boilers to G deck and then move outward slightly to continue up past the main steam pipes. Really need the isometric to sort this out... ah, I see Steve has got it.

Hi Steve, you're just in time.
Your last view is excellent, I don't think we've seen this area visualized before.

For the big horizontal girder across the aft bulkhead can I suggest, as a generality, that flanges on large beams were likely done by riveting on angles rather than trying to bend a long piece of plate. I think that Z channel in your first picture might just be flat plate riveted to the cross channel and an angle on the bulkhead. I had been wondering if there was a large cross girder/platform here and your pictures are making one look quite logical. The bulkhead steam valves have 4 cast feet and your platform is a place for them to sit.

Bill

  

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Ralph CurrellTue Jul-04-17 07:38 PM
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#55303, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 11


          

Hi Bill,

The figures I have for the webs are 0.60" for the web plate, 4.5" x 4.5" angles on both sides at the forward edge and 3.5" x 3.5" angles on the aft side. I don't have dimensions for Britannic's webs but I can well believe they'd be larger, as her watertight bulkhead extended higher than the earlier ships, thereby increasing the head of water it would need to withstand.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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Bill WestTue Jul-04-17 09:28 PM
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#55304, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 12


          

Thanks Ralph, that clears up the difference. I hadn't thought of the general changes leading to a structural challenge with the WTB's.

Bill

  

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Ralph CurrellWed Jul-05-17 08:32 AM
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#55305, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 10


          

Hi Steve,

That's looking very good. Regarding the z-channel in your first image, Bill is correct that this would be built up of plates and angles rather than a single formed piece. In this particular instance it there seems to be an angle bar running athwartship along the forward top edge of the plate, and the usual angles top and bottom where it attaches to the bulkhead.

Also, I think you can remove that horizontal bar running across the bulkhead just above the door.

As an example of how structures were built-up out of simple components, I've tried to show here how the curved web was assembled. (The straight web is similar, but without the triangular plates top and bottom).



Regards,
Ralph

Attachment #1, (gif file)

  

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SteveFuryThu Jul-06-17 10:22 PM
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#55307, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 14


          

Thanks Ralph.

I had a bit of time so I changed the Z channel to a flat plate and removed the Orlop-level horizontal web:



Looks better I think:


Been experimenting with the uptake tonight. I'll probably re-do it to get rid of its boxiness.
Wow that's going to be a tight fit for a catwalk stairs up along the bunker wall. A hair singe-er for sure!
Never mind the funky texturing:


This is NOT a space I'd like to spend a Titanic vacation in. The camera height is about 5'6" above the future catwalk. Watch your head!:


Here's my model profile superimposed over the Britannic plan, if you can make it out. Note that I don't have all the ceiling beams in place yet:




Looks like there's room for a catwalk pathway near the shell plating area, and through the gap of the uptake along the starboard main steam pipe passage. The orange line measures 6'8". I think that may be why they made the cut in the uptake so high:


You can see the tall passage here:


G'night..Thanks for looking.

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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Bill WestFri Jul-07-17 12:53 AM
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#55308, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 15


          

Hi Steve, more good progress. Tonight's little notes;
-The 1st, 3rd and 8th pictures didn't show at first, I had had to paste the URL from their properties into my address bar to provoke them into coming up. For our lurkers here's a link to your Flickr page http://s38.photobucket.com/user/SteveFury61/library/?sort=3&page=1

-The first shot looks very good.
-In shots 3&4, around the uptakes is an air screen (double wall), it doesn't follow the uptake all the way down. 215 psi steam in the boiler is 394F, the gasses in the uptake are probably 600-800F, that's more than hair singing.
-The ventilation ducts need figuring too, they are the other obfuscation in the drawings. They are almost hiding the gusseted girders under F deck.
-The background for picture 6 is a split drawing, the left half is BR1, the right half is BR2. That's why the cut in the uptake is different. The fan sizes are different too.

Bill

  

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SteveFurySun Jul-09-17 11:08 PM
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#55322, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 16


          

One of the greatest things I've discovered is the knowledge of the folks here, and how much I am learning about the design of this great ship.

I have a new BR1 uptake. The main steam lines are just place cards at the moment, and the internal room framing is shadowed:


I believe I've located the heat shield Bill mentioned. It forms the wall of the fidley, then follows the back side of the uptake and terminates on the top of the room's center support.
I took the liberty to add some channel supports. The area is super tight for space regarding ladders so I laid the channel on their side:


Been working almost all day trying to figure out the catwalks. Unbelievable huge pain.
Some of the Olympic plans appear to have ladders up and through the gaps in the uptake but the path is impossible. The ladders would need to raise to the level of the top of the room's beams. The distance from the beam to the top of the cut through the uptake is only about 3.5 feet. Too hot for anyone to use, so I put the access to the boiler cut-off (etc) valves along the ends of the room. There are two main room beams which interrupt the boiler valve level catwalk. They are about 3 feet above the catwalk so I put a pair of ladders to transverse them. These catwalks are temporary which are placed just to figure out the locations:


You can see how tight the space for the ladders are against the heat shield up to the fidley. A placecard of the main boiler blow-off pipe is placed up the fidley to verify clearances:


An end view all the way up to the base of the boat deck roof. There's going to be a door to the catwalk on E level. That's the only access I've found to the catwalks above the BR floor. It seems the ladders above E only go to the stack:


Some renders. The final catwalk floors will be the same channel and bars as found in the reciprocating room model:


Orlop (sight glass level). Pretty hot there, I imagine:


Boiler valve level, starboard side looking port. Notice the ladders over the support beams on the left. Also the stairs leading up the fidley in the background:


Another view showing the tight space for the fidley ladders.

>>Dang! I just noticed the tight space to the ceiling up the first fidley ladder. Measures 1'7". Hmm. Gonna have to change that one later. Thing is that you change one thing and it becomes a domino effect with other things around the room. One solution may be a rung-type ladder fastened to the back side of the heat shield?




Lastly, This view is a good view of the boiler valve-level platform:


That's about it for now.
I am really interested on folks opinions- Especially about the uptake heat shield/lower fidley.
Thanks!!!!

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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Bill WestMon Jul-10-17 02:49 PM
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#55329, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 17


          

Hi Steve

I'm undecided about the stiffening of the air screen. It's the same as any ordinary upper deck bulkhead and ought to be fairly well supported by the decks. If it did need stiffening such as in the sloping lower part I wonder if light angle irons would do.

The catwalks seem like secret passages in a haunted house. Here's my guesses:



-Green services the top of the boilers. The access appears to be between the center and starboard inner boiler. The cross path on the top of the boilers is at the aft end just before the stairs up to the steam valve platform.
-Red is the exit upwards. Based on BR2 I think the tank top ladders are between the outer boilers. On F deck the path upwards wraps around the port side of the uptake. As you mention there is a door at E deck, there is also an escape at A deck. At that point a ladder continues up the forward wall and there is a doorway into the stack casing.
-Blue may just be light framing.

I should have remembered and mentioned that in addition to the air screen, the uptake is double walled. This shows at the boiler front where the outer wall ends. The outer wall was also known as the breeches. TTSM pg261-262 shows it ending just before the fidley top.

Bill

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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SteveFuryMon Jul-10-17 10:02 PM
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#55332, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 18
Mon Jul-10-17 10:07 PMby SteveFury

          

Bill that was SUPER helpful and I can't thank you enough.

The biggest problem I had was that I was working with the same stairs as the ER. Stairs require substantially more horizontal space than ladders. Using ladders was the key.

This is my rough draft tonight. Never mind ladders don't quite reach etc:

End view:


Side:


The top view is a bit cluttered:


Some highlights to note:

For the passage from the sight glass (Orlop) level up to the boiler control valve platform... The room's main center "beam" is the issue. Going above it allows about 3-1/2 feet of passage clearance between the hot uptake. Below the beam is a lot better so I first put a short ladder up high enough to clear the boilers and it clears 6 feet height of passage under the beam. Then another short ladder up to the platform:


Something to note for the passage which makes it across the uptake/heat shield: I put a small ladder from the bare steel shelf up to the catwalk then across the uptake. That allows the right elevation for the next ladder going up. It also keeps a 6 foot clearance to the ceiling. I'll probably put some C channels on the ceiling though:


Thank you again Bill, very much.

P.S.
There doesn't seem to be any passage between the boiler rooms 1&2 above the WTB. Looks like they'd have to make their way up to E deck then go across and back down. I think the narrow passage between the uptakes and the casing wall might be too hot of an area?

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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Bill WestTue Jul-11-17 12:59 AM
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#55333, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 19


          

Thanks Steve.

I crossed up the views a bit, I was correctly looking at TTSM pg261 when I drew my "looking aft" view but I placed my info on your looking forward view. So the two orlop level ladders in your latest need to switch sides. Pg261 will also help with adjusting the position of the upper ladders.

I'm afraid the access to the boiler tops is just going to be a duckunder at the cross girder. There are 4 cross ties between the boilers to keep them in place, so the catwalk can't be any lower. This would not be used frequently so settling for cramped access is not surprising. TTSM pg291 shows the cross ties and quite a bit of the catwalks too. It also covers the top view of the boilers.

The small ladder around the heat shield matches the drawings.

You are right about upper access between BR1 and BR2. On E deck one has to use the hallway. F deck is cutoff by the galley cross hall and the other boiler rooms forward are cut by the 3rd class dining room. But most of the time the access would just be via the WTD at the tank top.

Bill

  

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mikejonson7501Tue Jul-11-17 09:29 AM
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#55334, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 1
Tue Jul-11-17 09:31 AMby mikejonson7501

          

hi Steve, my name is Mike, I am new here nice to meet you

  

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Ralph CurrellWed Jul-12-17 10:32 AM
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#55336, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 20


          

I agree with Bill that the path under that girder will probably require a bit of crouching. I'd be interested to know if anyone here has explored Queen Mary's machinery spaces to see if they had similar issues.

Here's my shot at the boiler room gratings. I have no doubt there's room for improvement, but it seems to conform to the plans available.





Regards,
Ralph

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)
Attachment #3, (jpg file)

  

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Bill WestFri Jul-14-17 12:16 AM
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#55339, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 22


          

Hi Ralph, sorry for the delay. I checked your sketch closely and I think it is exactly correct. The direction of tilt for the steps to the platform on E deck concerned me but I'm now satisfied. It appears to have a mere foot or so walkway width from the E deck door past the air screen. I guess this is TTSM's pg348 comment about narrow widths.

Bill

  

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Ralph CurrellFri Jul-14-17 08:10 AM
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#55341, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 23


          

Hi Bill,

I'm not happy with the arrangement around the E deck doorway, but this seemed the "least bad" solution that would conform with the plans.

One problem I see with my drawing is the steps from the boiler top grating to the lower deck platform. I think there should be three short stairways in total, one between the two large emergency valves, and the others outboard of these valves. Steve may have a better suggestion as to their location once he gets the pipes laid out.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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SteveFuryFri Jul-14-17 02:24 PM
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#55343, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 24


          

Bill, Ralph-
I'm headed out to Houston for a week then looking forward to trying your suggestions. Such great info!

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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SteveFurySun Jul-23-17 11:18 PM
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#55371, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I have a few images of my BR1 project to share.
Been working hard at this, more to do:

Stoker level facing Port:


An interesting view out of the bunker tunnel looking through the passage to the reciprocating room:


Sight glass level (Orlop) facing starboard:


The ladder against the top of the coal bunker:


Down the side of the coal bunker:


I modified the boiler top access as suggested. The passage through the uptake had to be raised. There seems to be a discrepancy between the height of this passage between the BR1 end view in the TTSM and the common uptake photo at H&W. TTSM shows it much shorter than the H&W photo. I made the change to more closely resemble the photo.
A ladder was necessary to transverse the center "beam":


Ready to do the piping.
The valve position will change to avoid putting the handwheel through the catwalk:


An interesting view showing different parts of the room:


Thanks for looking,

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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b-radMon Jul-24-17 11:51 AM
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#55372, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 26


          

First of all, looks amazing. Secondly I've had a sneaking feeling that this picture is of boiler room 1. I've been doing some research but have not found anything concrete. I see what I believe to be the bilge drain pots and wells, but I cannot verify this. Due to your research I am interested to hear your opinion as to whether or not this could be boiler room 1.

Brad Payne

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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Ralph CurrellTue Jul-25-17 08:25 AM
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#55373, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 26


          

Hi Steve,

Very nice! As you've noticed, the valves on the boiler tops will have to be moved. In fact, each boiler has its own particular arrangement of valves, so you'll have to be guided by the plans.

One thing I notice is that you've got those fore-and-aft girders at G deck lined up with the stanchions between the boilers. This is not quite the case. I hope this diagram helps.



Regards,
Ralph

Attachment #1, (gif file)

  

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Bill WestTue Jul-25-17 10:19 PM
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#55375, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 28


          

Hi Steve, you sure got back to work quickly, that's looking impressive.

Pict#1&2 -in these posts Karol suggests there is no warmup circulation system in BR1. Note that his drawing is BR3.
http://www.titanic-model.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=100&topic_id=54420&mesg_id=54505&page=4
and reply at http://www.titanic-model.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=100&topic_id=54420&mesg_id=54506&page=4
That leaves us with 2 feed systems dropping down to each boiler but no circulation pipe rising from the floor. BR2 is has the 2 feed systems at the aft end and the circulation system at the forward end.

Pict#3 -the water glass is fairly slender, http://www.greatsouthbay.com/DDeckPFER.htm . Ours would just be longer. The catwalk access is to test them for clogging and to replace blown glass (lots of steamy excitement in the room). Normal viewing is from the firing floor. TTSM pg298 has one beside the bright light.

Pict #5 -is an interesting narrow look down, that sort of limited view happens in boiler rooms. In person you can mentally piece together the space but a camera often can't do it as easily.
-the passage through the uptake slit is smaller in BR1. TTSM pg297 is looking from BR2 end.

Pict#6 -even though it doesn't look nice the duckunder shows pretty clearly in the drawings.

Pict#7 -Ralph's previous drawing has sorted out getting the catwalks around the valve handles.
-the big bulkhead stop valves were discussed 3 years ago, some reasonable drawings were located. http://titanic-model.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=100&topic_id=50169&mode=full
posts 13, 17, 19.

Pict#8 -the ventilation ducts could have dampers added on the end, see Marconigraph http://marconigraph.com/titanic/cgi/cgi_lmot4.html 2nd picture. Oh and that's a suggestion about the stoking telegraphs.

Bill

  

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SteveFuryThu Jul-27-17 09:10 PM
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#55382, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 29


          

Thanks Ralph and Bill.
That's a large amount of information to study...Great sources. I'm really impressed by the CGI work done on Marconigraph.
I also have the Robert Ballard book (It was the main source I used about 25 years ago to build my 5 foot model). Maybe I should thumb through it again

I had some time this evening and had a chance to move the cross members over as Ralph suggested. Also position the boiler top valves and come up with what will likely be a final catwalk arrangement.
I plan to extend the catwalk above the center boiler further aft as to reach the auxiliary steam control valves situated between the two main steam feeds to the ER. It's in a perfect position to do so. Maybe bring all 5 of those fwd-aft boiler-top catwalks further back for the rear valves.

The pic below looks very plain as it is a limited render in my software package. Shadows & the thousands of rivets don't appear here for example (They require a full render process):

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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SteveFurySun Aug-06-17 10:50 PM
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#55407, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 30


          

Well I took a break for a while from my BR project but hit it hard all day today.
I finished the main stop valves, added some light fixtures at the boiler fronts and main steam gauges. Also main damper chains/handles.

The lights and gauges are based on the Belganland. The Belganland underwent so many modifications-Maybe the gauge boards are by H&W? Notice the oil fired boilers:


Here's what I have for today:


Boiler 1 & 2 gauges:


I think these main stop valves turned out pretty good... Better when all the plumbing is in:


Thanks, take care as always.
-Steve

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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Bill WestMon Aug-07-17 01:11 PM
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#55412, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 31


          

Hi Steve, more good lookin' work! This room has come together very well. Aside from the auxiliary steam pipes that you already know of, I can't see anything else that is needed here.

Bill

  

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bpreadMon Aug-07-17 03:13 PM
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#55413, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 32


          

I don't know if this image has been posted in this thread but here is the credit: Olympic's boiler room following her conversion to oil. Image Credit: 'Majesty at Sea: The Four Stackers' by William H. Flayhart and John Schaum

Regards
Bob Read

  

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bpreadMon Aug-07-17 03:19 PM
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#55414, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 33


          

Sorry the image didn't post in the last post I made. I'll try again.
Well, no luck again. Here's the message I get:
Error 500: Internal Server Error

The server encountered an unexpected condition which prevented it from fulfilling the request.

The problem is on the server side, not with your browser or the address. Most probably, a certain service (e.g., Tomcat engine) is down. Please contact your webmaster.

  

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Ralph CurrellMon Aug-07-17 06:39 PM
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#55415, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 34


          

Hi Bob,

That message may be due to the file size. For the last month or so the forum has been rejecting any image larger than 127 Kb. I don't know if this is going to be a permanent thing, but for the time being we have to either post smaller pics or use a third-party site to host them.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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Bill WestMon Aug-07-17 07:28 PM
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#55416, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 35


          

Good find Bob! With your lead Google quickly found someone who had already posted it at Tumblr.


Bill

  

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Ralph CurrellMon Aug-07-17 09:47 PM
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#55417, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 36


          

Bob and Bill,

Very nice indeed! There's a slightly larger version hosted at tumblr though I don't know if it shows any more detail:



Assuming this is Olympic (and I don't see anything obvious that would rule it out), I wonder if we can figure out which boiler room we're looking at. There's a circular object at the far end of the stokehold that may be one of the Kilroy's stoking indicators.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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Bill WestMon Aug-07-17 10:44 PM
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#55418, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 37


          

Ralph, they may have kept the full-half-slow telegraph but I don't think the Kilroy would be applicable.

I think the diagonally sloping pipes at the center are feedwater. There are 6 in BR1-2, 4 in BR3-4 and 2 in BR5-6. The smaller ones coming at us under the overhead catwalk would be the branches to this room's boilers. I would speculate that the branches are at the aft end of all the rooms. This all adds up to a very weak guess that we are looking to port in the aft end of BR4

Steve, there appears to be half of a water glass below the light next to the catwalk mid room. And above the gauges on the left pillar is confirmation of the air vent damper shown in the Marconigraph. The column also suggests that the boiler room has upper/lower paint just like the engine room.

I find it interesting that the bunker area at the left appears to be cut out. Did a portion of the fuel capacity go into the double bottom? I'll have to do some figuring later.

Bill

  

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Ralph CurrellTue Aug-08-17 06:57 AM
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#55419, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 38


          

Hi Bill,

You're right that the stoking indicator would not be needed (unless they re-purposed it somehow to send oil firing signals). But the shape and location are a pretty good match for this one on the Justicia.



Not sure about the cut-away part of the bunker. An ash ejector recess? I have some information around here about Olympic's oil storage but it will take some finding. I know some of the spaces between the hull and the inner hull were used for oil fuel.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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bpreadTue Aug-08-17 08:43 AM
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#55420, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 39


          

Here's a link to a Mark Chirnside book where he describes the oil conversion changes. https://books.google.com/books?id=aG4TDQAAQBAJ&pg=PT249&lpg=PT249&dq=rms+olympic+oil+storage&source=bl&ots=OrdRGqmaKB&sig=SkRN0WtjB2QyQ26wKP59ULhpFs4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjY1O3a7sfVAhXCLSYKHaznAXIQ6AEIUzAL#v=onepage&q=rms%20olympic%20oil%20storage&f=false

Regards
Bob Read

  

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Ralph CurrellTue Aug-08-17 03:31 PM
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#55421, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 40


          

Thanks Bob, that's what I was looking for.

It seems oil fuel was planned for some of the double bottom tanks but this was not carried out.

For Steve's guidance, I suspect the two rectangular boxes shown in the boiler room photo on the right side (in the foreground and near the far end of the stokehold) are sand bins used for firefighting. These would not have been present on the ship before her oil conversion.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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b-radFri Aug-11-17 05:27 AM
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#55422, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 37


          

This is indeed the Olympic. It is from the American Shipping Magazine Vol. 13. It can be found here

https://books.google.com/books?id=HTQfAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA5-PA13&dq=Olympic+reciprocating+engine&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi5i_-l0_zUAhVU7GMKHYgJC0MQ6AEIOjAE#v=onepage&q=Olympic%20reciprocating%20engine&f=false

Brad Payne

  

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Ralph CurrellFri Aug-11-17 07:14 AM
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#55423, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 42
Fri Aug-11-17 07:15 AMby Ralph Currell

          

Hi Brad,

Good find! Not only does it confirm the ship as Olympic but the photo itself shows less retouching than the one printed in 'Majesty at Sea'.

If (as in my case) the Google Books link doesn't work, it can also be seen at https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015082625941;view=1up;seq=403 . (It may be necessary to cut-and-paste this URL to get it to work).

Regards,
Ralph

  

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SteveFurySun Aug-20-17 10:35 PM
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#55459, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 43


          

I've been hitting this BR1 project pretty hard the past few days. I believe that it's completed as far as I care to go.

I have a walk-through video rendering, made to a decent resolution which will take about a week to complete. When it's done it will go onto YouTube -- I'll post it here when completed. My aim is to eventually continue the tour into the reciprocating room.

Once the regular video is done then I'll also begin a 3D 360 stereo version which should be super cool for those with the viewers. It will take more than a month to render that one.

In the mean time, here are quite a few renderings.

First, the pipe arrangement. Color coded for function:



Assuming the WTD lifting/reset handwheel should go at the top of the bulkhead, I took the liberty of making a universal joint to handle the angled part of the coal bunker.
The view here may be a bit confusing- It is as if standing on the catwalk looking up over the angled part of the bunker. The handwheel is positioned just port of the uptake support framing. The bottom connection leads down to the WTD gear mechanism:


This view is interesting but precarious at the same time. It's as if standing on the top of the coal bunker looking downward over the ladder:


On the catwalk facing port. The ladder on the left leads to the boiler tops, the ladder on the right up leads up the side of the bunker (The path up the fidley):


Floor facing Starboard. Notice the stoking indicators and the feed water pipes overhead. The sight glass's are remade more narrow. The tin light fixtures have been changed to the utility style to illuminate the glass:


Floor facing port. I didn't have any size reference to the stoking or telegraph indicator. I hope they're reasonably correct:


A telegraph closeup. I am contemplating putting a pair of blower fan controllers on the floor below it:


Boiler tops facing starboard. It looks a lot more busy with all the pipes installed:


Tops facing port. This area is full of head-knockers:


One last photo in the series-Just some boiler top pipes & valves:


That's about it for now.
Thanks for looking!

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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Ralph CurrellTue Aug-22-17 08:44 AM
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#55461, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 44


          

Hi Steve,

That's really coming together. I can't wait to see the video walk-through.

For the stoking indicator size, I found this diagram that shows a housing diameter of slightly under 14 inches. It's not identical to the ones used on Titanic but the housing looks similar. I have no information on the telegraph indicator size.




I notice you show five stoking indicators per stokehold. I'm not sure myself how they were arranged, or the total number, but I wonder if there were fewer. There were 15 furnaces per stokehold (12 in BR #6), so there would have to be at least two indicators (assuming 8 numbers on each indicator wheel). There is regrettably little information on these devices in actual shipboard use.

You mention you might be adding fan controllers. These controllers were, I think, located at the same level as the fans, but there were handwheels and rods to allow control from the stokehold.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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b-radTue Aug-22-17 10:47 AM
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#55462, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 45
Tue Aug-22-17 10:48 AMby b-rad

          

According to the Scientific American Vol.71, '...each stokehold is provided with Kilroy's stoking indicators, one for each boiler.... The instruments are so arranged that there shall be the minimum number of doors open at the same time, and no two opposite doors in the same double-end boiler shall be open together."

This last part is interesting and shows that either the numbering on the indicators rotated differently per stokehold- aka the forward side of boiler room 6 (stokehold 11) started with door 2, while the aft side (stokehold 10) started with door 1, therefore door one on the same boiler, either side, would not be opened. Either that or the numbering was staggered so that there was never a chance (except human error) of numbers corresponding. This is illustrated with the pic. I included.

Brad Payne

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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Ralph CurrellTue Aug-22-17 11:21 AM
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#55463, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 46
Tue Aug-22-17 08:12 PMby Ralph Currell

          

Hi Brad,

Good catch! I've read that article in the past (it originally appeared in 'The Engineer') but missed the detail about there being one per boiler. Now I wonder if they meant 'one per boiler' or 'one per boiler end'. If the latter then the indicators would have to be synched to prevent the opening of opposite doors on the double-ended boilers.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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SteveFurySun Aug-27-17 01:30 AM
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#55471, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 47


          

Thank you for all the input.
I've made a couple of interesting changes.
The first was to reposition the path from the main catwalk up to the boiler tops. It just seemed a bit odd to climb all the way up and over the I beam then back down.
This is how it was:


Here is my final change. It seems to make more sense:


The plans seem to show one ladder going up to the boiler top level. That doesn't really work because the clearance between the top of the ladder and the bottom of the I beam is only about 2-1/2 feet. It would be like climbing a 7 foot ladder then climbing through a space similar to your sink counter. A person would need to climb over the beam. A fairly high climb.

Regarding the vent fan controls, I hung a pair of rods down from the ceiling within the vicinity of the fan motors to 6" hand wheels:


Most of today was spent up on the E deck hallway. The patterns on the walls, floor and ceiling look a bit funky but still look OK. I think the ceiling is supposed to be beams. The door positions are approximate. The pipes are there because they usually run through these spaces (?):


Here's my rendition of the WTD on E deck. The door leading to the BR is just off camera on the left. It's based on the TTSM photo of the one on Olympic:


I finally opened up the WTD to view the distant ER:


I think it would be cool to eventually continue the video through the ER spaces and end up in the E deck engineers mess hall. Looks like it will take 3-4 weeks to render the BR in HD resolution. I'll post it when it's done.

Thanks all for the help!!!

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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Ralph CurrellMon Aug-28-17 07:41 AM
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#55472, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 48


          

Hi Steve,

I understand the difficulties with the catwalks as shown on the plans. Your solution is a good compromise.

I didn't realize you were including the E Deck corridor as well. You're correct that the ceiling will show exposed deck beams, and a variety of pipes and ventilation ducts. Other refinements would be a waterway along the outboard side of the corridor, and portable plates at intervals in the deck for shipping boiler furnaces. TTSM volume 2 has a fair bit of info on this area.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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Bill WestMon Aug-28-17 11:17 PM
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#55475, "RE: Boiler Room #1 questions"
In response to Reply # 49


          

BR-1 looks good Steve. An observation about the safety valves, I think the spring is concentric with the valve stem. There is no intermediate lever involved. There are 2 or 4 valves on a common base casting with the inlet on the bottom and the outlet on the side. Ralph may have some more info in the MT212 file. The Engineering plan views may reveal whether it is 2 valves per boiler in BR1 and 4 in BR2 or some other combination.

Bill
PS: I'm on a slow, intermittent service right now so this is a bit of a catch-up. I see I am overlapping Ralph a bit. Your last post is great. Two points, I think the fan controls you've added would hang down where the stokers could reach them. And the E deck corridor is likely as spartan as absolutely possible.

Bill

  

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