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Subject: "Britannic Interior" Previous topic | Next topic
Pete VioletteFri Apr-08-11 07:37 AM
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#41744, "Britannic Interior"
Fri Apr-08-11 07:48 AMby Pete Violette

  

          

Are there any photos or details of the interior of Britannic?(it can be on the wreck) I'm curious of what it actually looked like, not impressions of what it was supposed to look like

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: Britannic Interior, Jerry Vondeling, Apr 08th 2011, #1
RE: Britannic Interior, max mann, Apr 08th 2011, #2
RE: Britannic Interior, William B. Barney, Apr 08th 2011, #3
      RE: Britannic Interior, wchaydel, Apr 09th 2011, #4
           RE: Britannic Interior, Jerry Vondeling, Apr 09th 2011, #5
                RE: Britannic Interior, Spammals, Apr 14th 2011, #6
                RE: Britannic Interior, wchaydel, Apr 15th 2011, #7
                     RE: Britannic Interior, Spammals, Apr 17th 2011, #8
                          RE: Britannic Interior, Jerry Vondeling, Apr 17th 2011, #9
                          RE: Britannic Interior, Scott Andrews, Apr 17th 2011, #10
                               RE: Britannic Interior, Morten Jensen, Apr 17th 2011, #11
                               RE: Britannic Interior, Bill West, Apr 17th 2011, #12
                               RE: Britannic Interior, Olaf, Apr 18th 2011, #14
                               RE: Britannic Interior, Spammals, Apr 18th 2011, #15
                               RE: Britannic Interior, Scott Andrews, Apr 18th 2011, #18
                               RE: Britannic Interior, Olaf, Apr 18th 2011, #20
                                    RE: Britannic Interior, Spammals, Apr 18th 2011, #21
                               Listen here...., Scott Andrews, Apr 18th 2011, #19
                               RE: Britannic Interior, frankbelanger, Mar 17th 2017, #22
                Interior fittings auctioned, Ralph Currell, Apr 17th 2011, #13
                     Auction advertisements, Ralph Currell, Apr 18th 2011, #16
                          RE: Auction advertisements, Jerry Vondeling, Apr 18th 2011, #17

Jerry VondelingFri Apr-08-11 11:29 AM
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#41746, "RE: Britannic Interior"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think there are not many pictures of the interiors of Britannic because she would have gone in warservice (1914) before she would start her passengerservice, which was scheduled in Spring 1915.

Actually I thought there was only one picture of the Britannic interiors, it can be seen on another site, where I also found another interior photo, here; http://www.ancorasuites.com/BRITANNIC.html

Jerry


  

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max mannFri Apr-08-11 07:02 PM
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#41748, "RE: Britannic Interior"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Apr-08-11 09:32 PMby max mann

  

          

There is a video of a diving excursion made for Discovery Channel in 1999. In the video divers venture into the port side promenade and the forward grand staircase. Though much of the staircase and paneling is gone, there are small sections of the glass and iron dome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCpF4DGEoeo&feature=related

In 2005, Kevin Pickering penetrated the wreck and explored the #1 cargo hatch, firemans tunnel, and #1 boiler room. The video can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-vs5-etNpw&feature=fvwrel



Best wishes,

Max

  

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William B. BarneyFri Apr-08-11 08:43 PM
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#41750, "RE: Britannic Interior"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

Pete,

Yes, Jerry was right about not much photos of the HMHS Britannic during WW1 as Hospital ship.

Max, Thanks for sharing a inside of Britannic where Grand Staircase and show glass and iron from the dome! Very interesting to see inside of the wreck as in near good shapes! (:

And show my 1/350 model of Britannic wreck as completed! As my vision of wreck era in end of WW2 to show some good details over the wreck than today and there much as 100% cover of sea life marines.

http://titanic-model.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=123&topic_id=2785&mesg_id=2785&page=2


Photos of Britannic: http://titanic-model.com/articles/britannic_photos/index.shtml


And some of AWESOME photos from wreck and Sonar scan from Britannic wreck: http://www.deepimage.co.uk/wrecks/britannic/britannic2003/britannic-pages/britannicwreck-images.htm

Regards,

William


DEAD MEN TELL NO TALES. DEAD SHIPS, HOWEVER, DO!

  

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wchaydelSat Apr-09-11 12:57 PM
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#41755, "RE: Britannic Interior"
In response to Reply # 3


          

I have always wondered if any of Britannics interiors survived. I'm sure that most of the lavish panels and furnishings were taken out, as they were on Olympic. Does anyone know if they were installed on another ship, or sold?
Bill H.

  

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Jerry VondelingSat Apr-09-11 02:50 PM
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#41757, "RE: Britannic Interior"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

The Hospital Ship Britannic FAQ Database states that from literature from the period indicates that most of Britannic's unfitted interiors were simply placed in storage. This included the forward Grand Staircase. They were stored so that they could be fitted once the war ended and the ship got ready for commercial service. Of course, she never returned and the exact fate of the interiors is still unclear. There is a hotel in Cleveland, England, which claims to have parts of Britannic's woodwork.There is also a pub called the 'Crown Liquor Saloon' in Belfast which claims to have sections of the interiors. It has also been suggested that the interiors were simply sold off for use on another ship. They might also have been kept and fitted on Olympic when repairs were necessary

(See here; http://pub41.bravenet.com/faq/show.php?usernum=3467894798&catid=2949)

Jerry

  

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SpammalsThu Apr-14-11 10:26 AM
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#41809, "RE: Britannic Interior"
In response to Reply # 5


          

i can post some artist impressions from the time, but sadly i also havent ever come across any period internal photos, just wreck dive video and construction photos

Regards,
Daniel Smith

  

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wchaydelFri Apr-15-11 02:27 AM
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#41825, "RE: Britannic Interior"
In response to Reply # 6


          

Daniel,
Please, could you post any artists impresssions that aren't already on the site of Britannic?
H&W should have accounting records of where those interiors were, as part of Britannics "furnishings, fixtures and equipment". Things like Electrical fixtures were sorta 'build to suit' back then so i'm sure much of her intended lighting fixtures, were installed. as well as elevators, fans, vents, pumps.
So that leaves us left with just "finery" like wall panels, ballisters, furniture, (carpentry items). Things like lamps, rugs, not to mention dishes, and cutlery, could be used on other ships.

Why are these records so hard to find? H&W, White Star, I.M.M. and their insurers should have detailed records of what "went down with the ship" Also, what upgrades from BRIT. could have been fitted on OLYM. after the war? Would they have saved the wrought iron from the staircase or was the design different? Did it get scrapped for war the effort?

Even though this was a KINGDOM, and still not as free, there should be PUBLIC information out there.
All these things are not only on admistration and legal documents, these are big numbers we're talking about. They should be easily identified on financial records that must be kept, for decades in some cases. Tax, Payroll, Insurance, not to mention the government reimbursements, and war related legalities against the enemy.
There is much more paper out there to be researched, for a library of new Olympic Class liner books!

  

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SpammalsSun Apr-17-11 08:47 AM
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#41858, "RE: Britannic Interior"
In response to Reply # 7


          

Sorry for the late reply, i had forgotten to keep an eye on this topic, Theese artist impressions are from www.NMNI.com







I find it curious how the grand staircase has the clock on the oppersite wall, and theres no archway to walk across to the other side of the room from boatdeck level

the swimming pool looks alot better aswell

Regards,
Daniel Smith

  

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Jerry VondelingSun Apr-17-11 10:48 AM
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#41861, "RE: Britannic Interior"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

Perhaps it's not the clock, but an artist's impression of wallpanneling?

Jerry

  

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Scott AndrewsSun Apr-17-11 11:33 AM
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#41862, "RE: Britannic Interior"
In response to Reply # 8
Sun Apr-17-11 09:24 PMby Scott Andrews

  

          

"...I find it curious... theres no archway to walk across to the other side of the room from boatdeck level..."

The athwartship passage had to be eliminated to permit the two-storey space required for the organ chamber. The instrument was to be completely enchambered and without exposed pipework, false or otherwise; the grillework you see at the Boat Deck level allowed for the egress of sound from the pipework. The winding system and the windchests upon which the pipes of the upper registers were to stand would have taken up most of the lower half of the chamber, while the pipework of these divisions would occupied the upper portion. The longer pipes of the pedal division and also the bass registers of the manual divisions would have been located on offset chests apart from the main windchests; these would have been located on the A-Deck level, with the longest pipes rising through the entire two-deck height of the chamber. The arched panel you see beneath the clock was to be a lockable door which concealed the organ's console from curious hands when the instrument was not being played by an organist or by a trained attendant operating the roll player.

Regards,
Scott Andrews
TRMA Trustee

  

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Morten JensenSun Apr-17-11 01:29 PM
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#41865, "RE: Britannic Interior"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Another thing I find interesting with the GSC is the arched handrailing and framework at the boat deck level. Why would they do it like this and not straight as on Olympic and Titanic?

- Morten

  

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Bill WestSun Apr-17-11 09:28 PM
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#41869, "RE: Britannic Interior"
In response to Reply # 11


          

It might have been a late safety idea. The wells to each side of the GSC are a 5 story drop.

Bill

  

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OlafMon Apr-18-11 12:27 AM
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#41871, "RE: Britannic Interior"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Slightly off topic, but what was the idea to install an organ there? For what would it have been used? I associate organs with church service, weddings and things like this. Where would have been the audience/listeners standing or sitting? The player(s)? What about the acoustic characteristics of the GSC? I think they took care not to smash the dome into pieces while pounding the keys ... ;o)

Happy brainstorming ~ Olaf!

www.linerpara.de

  

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SpammalsMon Apr-18-11 01:29 AM
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#41872, "RE: Britannic Interior"
In response to Reply # 14


          

Please do Ralph : ) and yay go me! i actually contributed something intresting to a topic

And thanks Scott for the excellent explanation of why there as no walkway

Regards,
Daniel Smith

  

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Scott AndrewsMon Apr-18-11 12:33 PM
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#41879, "RE: Britannic Interior"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

Olaf,

You need to transport yourself back a century to understand the purpose of the installation of a pipe organ aboard a ship.

First, to my knowledge, the installation of an organ of this size and scope -- about the size of a moderate church organ -- had never been attempted aboard a ship before, and certainly would have been a degree of one-upmanship unequalled by any of the WSL's competitors, then or since.

Secondly, during the latter part of the 19th century and up to the time of WW2, the organ saw far more secular use than is common today. Organ recitals were a very popular form of entertainment amongst all classes of society, and these recitals included everything from the literature written specifically for the organ, to transcriptions of works for other instruments and even the major symphonic works. Arrangements of the popular works of the period were also popular fodder for such recitals.

Unlike today, when the organ is almost solely to found in church buildings, it was a matter of civic pride to have very large pipe organs in city halls and civic auditoriums in such facilities of any city of even moderate size, as well in any symphony hall or opera house of any pretension. The civic organists hired to concertize on these instruments, and those organists who traveled the world as recitalist were the "rock stars" of their day. (The world renowned English-borne American organist Edwin Lemare commanded a whopping $15,000 per year salary in 1915 when he accepted the post as the City Organist of San Fransisco, and packed the auditorium with as many as 10,000 patrons at any performance during the Pan American Exhibition that year! As a side note, Lemare was a frequent WSL patron and crossed with Capt. Smith on numerous occasions.)

The presence of this organ aboard the Britannic was also a further concession to the desires and tastes of White Star's wealthiest American clientele. The Morgans, the Vanderbilts, the Fricks, the Goulds, the Astors, and many others all had residence pipe organs in their various mansions; most of these came equipped with roll players, similar to those found in player pianos, both to provide music for guests and also to provide music throughout the house during the day. On occasion, some of the famous recitalist of the day, or some of the prominent local organists were invited as guests or hired to play for special occasions. Some of the super-rich took this love affair to the next level. George Eastman of Kodak fame, DuPont, and several others commissioned cathedral-sized instruments to be placed in specially constructed concert halls in or attached to their homes, and hired a full-time, private "house organist" to provide music throughout the day and at more formal recitals for guests.

One more note: regarding the sound of these instruments, aside from the civic and concert hall instruments, and monsters commissioned by a few of the super-rich, the majority of these instruments were not at all like the church organs most of us are familiar with. These were termed "residence organs" and the overall sound of such an instrument is far warmer and the individual stops are of of a different sort character altogether. Check out Youtube for an idea of what such an instrument would sound like; there are a number of videos of residence organs at work, or in the process of restoration.

Regards,
Scott Andrews
TRMA Trustee

PS - Acoustically, in traditional terms, there is absolutely NO IDEA PLACE to install a pipe organ aboard a passenger ship; at least at the top of the Grand Staircase, the sound would have reflected downwards by the dome and would have been heard well in the lobbies of B and C-Decks, and perhaps equally well in the vicinity of the bottom landing in the Reception Room, but the acoustics throughout the stairwell would have been practically "dead" -- that is, without and reverberation, which is critical to the sound of especially the more traditionally-voiced organs such as those found in churches. About the only shipboard space I can think of where such ringing acoustics might be found would be the hangar deck of an aircraft carrier!

  

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OlafMon Apr-18-11 01:23 PM
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#41881, "RE: Britannic Interior"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

OMG, thank you for your comprehensive explanation, Scott - and your time to write it. I never ever would have thought that there was so much behind it. Strange, how one can learn something like this because of the interest in liners of the past. Residence organ, yes, I will look for it, thanks for the hint.

(and the super-rich even employed someone for just playing the organ at home? Wow, what a strange world ...)

Happy playing (the organ) ~ Olaf!

www.linerpara.de

  

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SpammalsMon Apr-18-11 04:39 PM
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#41885, "RE: Britannic Interior"
In response to Reply # 20


          

So where do we think theese interiors have ended up, is it possible current owners might be unaware of there history, or may have even chucked in the skip after a refurb

Regards,
Daniel Smith

  

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Scott AndrewsMon Apr-18-11 01:17 PM
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#41880, "Listen here...."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

Olaf (and anyone else interested),

In case you're wondering what this type of organ might have sounded like, here are of few of the YouTube videos I mentioned. The organ in these videos is a restored Aeolian residence organ of 34 ranks (sets of pipes), having three manuals and pedal keyboard -- approximately the size instrument that was to be installed. The first video is a bit of a "story" showing the instrument being dismantled, restored and relocated into it's new home, all accompanied by music from the oragn. The second and third videos are a transcription of Tchaikovsky’s "Waltz of the Flowers," and the Toccata from Symphony No.5 for organ by Charles-Marie Widor, both of which would have been well-known to Titanic's passengers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysQKYOWJDt4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPPhNXpwASw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGKRu-3zvEU&feature=related

Regards,
Scott Andrews
TRMA Trustee

Note: the "shutters" you see moving in the background in some shots are called "swell shades." The volume of organ pipes themselves cannot be altered so, in order to achieve dynamic shading, the pipes of some or all of the organ's divisions are installed in a semi-soundproof room that is fitted with movable shutters which are operated by the organist's feet through one or more balanced expression pedals located dead center and just above the pedal keyboard. Opening the shades increses the volume of sound released to the listening space, while closing them does the opposite. On a player instrument, the swell shades and stops are operated along with everthing else by the roll player.

  

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frankbelangerFri Mar-17-17 11:33 PM
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#54800, "RE: Britannic Interior"
In response to Reply # 10


          

I wondered about the gallery no longer being connected aft of the stairway. Then I remembered the elevators now go to Boat Deck so there is a foyer in front of the elevators that connects both sides of the Boat Deck staircase gallery.

  

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Ralph CurrellSun Apr-17-11 09:59 PM
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#41870, "Interior fittings auctioned"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Jerry and others,

The leftover interior fittings were auctioned off in Belfast in 1919. If there's any interest I can post scans of the auction advertisements, which give some description of what was being sold.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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Ralph CurrellMon Apr-18-11 08:53 AM
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#41877, "Auction advertisements"
In response to Reply # 13


          

The Britannic fittings were apparently sold off in three auctions. Here are the advertisements that appeared in the journal 'Shipbuilding & Shipping Record'.





The descriptions given are of course quite brief. I don't know if any of the auction catalogues are known to have survived, but they'd have much more detailed information.

Regards,
Ralph

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)
Attachment #3, (jpg file)

  

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Jerry VondelingMon Apr-18-11 10:49 AM
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#41878, "RE: Auction advertisements"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

Thank you Ralph,

Those are interesting adverts, I have never seen them before.
Thanks for posting!

  

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