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Subject: "Reciprocating room CG #2" Previous topic | Next topic
SteveFurySun Oct-15-17 09:17 PM
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#55533, "Reciprocating room CG #2"


          

Hello.
I couldn't find my previous thread on the topic so I started a new one.

I've been spending a TON of time sweeping up the finishing touches on this ER. I've been rendering a fly-thru of my boiler room #1 for the past month or so and I need to get this ER finished up when that's done. I plan to do a ER fly-thru as well.

I moved the telephones and boiler room telegraph to the rear center column. I think that's where it belongs.
That freed up the forward column to mount the main telegraphs. I ran the cable conduit right up the forward side of the column and it turns to port at the top, terminating in the E deck wall, floor level.
Please let me know if you really think they are wrong.

I had read in a publication somewhere that Olympic had a main (paraphrasing) central gauge board where lots of gauges were clustered. Do you suppose the renderings below could be reasonably accurate?

The gauge board is mounted upon the center column, the bottom edge about 7 feet off the floor.
Never mind that all the gauges point the same or aren't labeled, I'll do that later.
I figured a minimum of 6 gauges per engine. The others for regulated lines etc.

I am really wondering if it follows a logical pattern as would have been seen back then... If you think there may be too many gauges (or not enough).
I am also putting a few gauges scattered around the room such as along the pump walls and back in the refrigeration engine spaces.

But yea there's too many modifications to mention them all from my previous postings. Here's a few:

*All vents are installed (As appear on the plans during the 1920s Olympic refit)
*Blower motors inside the casing up to the boat deck
*Major rework of all the pumps along the port & starboard sides including the refrigeration engines
*Pipes are far more accurate (but not absolutely perfect) along the sides
*All the shell ribbing have been reworked & replaced
*About 40,000 rivets installed
*New engineers desk is modeled from a H&W ship of the same period (Bill's cup remains)
*Lots more

Here's a couple pics, I hope to upload more soon:




Thanks for looking

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, SteveFury, Oct 16th 2017, #1
RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, Dave Abate, Oct 16th 2017, #2
      RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, SteveFury, Oct 16th 2017, #3
           RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, Ralph Currell, Oct 17th 2017, #4
                RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, Bill West, Oct 17th 2017, #5
                     RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, Ralph Currell, Oct 17th 2017, #6
                          RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, Bill West, Oct 17th 2017, #7
                               RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, SteveFury, Oct 21st 2017, #8
                                    RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, SteveFury, Oct 22nd 2017, #9
                                         RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, Joe100, Oct 22nd 2017, #10
                                              RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, Ralph Currell, Oct 22nd 2017, #11
                                                   RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, SteveFury, Oct 22nd 2017, #12
                                                        RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, Ralph Currell, Oct 22nd 2017, #13
                                                             RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, Bill West, Oct 23rd 2017, #14
                                                                  RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, Ralph Currell, Oct 23rd 2017, #15
                                                                       RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, c riley, Nov 02nd 2017, #16
                                                                            RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, Ralph Currell, Nov 02nd 2017, #17
                                                                                 RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, SteveFury, Nov 11th 2017, #18
                                                                                      RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, SteveFury, Nov 11th 2017, #19
                                                                                           RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, Ralph Currell, Nov 11th 2017, #20
                                                                                           RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, Bill West, Nov 12th 2017, #21
                                                                                           RE: Reciprocating room CG #2, SteveFury, Nov 12th 2017, #22

SteveFuryMon Oct-16-17 04:26 AM
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#55534, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Here's a few more. I see a few adjustments are necessary:



























Thanks



Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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Dave AbateMon Oct-16-17 07:50 PM
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#55535, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

Steve

Outstanding work. Like your color choices and the way you use light and shadows.

Dave Abate

  

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SteveFuryMon Oct-16-17 08:24 PM
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#55536, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 2


          

Thank you for the compliment.

Here's just a couple more renders. The hand wheel next to the direct contact heater leads to the WTD mechanism. I assume it should go in the area:



Below is the two fans servicing the center floor area. I took the liberty to put a fan controller in the space between the motors. I also made an extremely long shaft all the way down to the starting platform. It terminates with a small hand wheel just aft of the forward pillar, to control the fans from there:



I tested the model with the gauge board rotated 90 degrees. I think it looks a lot better. Probably needs to be raised a couple feet or so:



Thanks,

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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Ralph CurrellTue Oct-17-17 09:52 AM
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#55538, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 3


          

Hi Steve,

That is really looking impressive! I can't give you much help with the gauge board except to suggest that the port and starboard gauges might have been grouped separately. Here is the starting platform of a WWII-era destroyer (admittedly a much different beast than Titanic) and you can see the gauges, counters etc. are grouped port and starboard. I expect Bill will have some useful suggestions.



One other possible addition is the pair of winches thought to exist at the floor plate level. So as not to derail your thread I'll create a new topic to discuss these.

Regards,
Ralph

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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Bill WestTue Oct-17-17 03:53 PM
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#55540, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 4


          

For those joining here, this thread is a sequel to "Titanic 3D model project" started last spring at http://titanic-model.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=100&topic_id=54681&mesg_id=54681&page=2 .

Hi Steve. Wow that's a lot of progress. It's an impressive set of views. The realism is excellent and the detail incredible. The mid level views have that nook and cranny look with much closeness, it's complicated in there. The air shaft development is a good addition.

The bits are few this time:
The teeth in the refrigerating engine flywheel are so fine that at first I thought they were grooves.
The chrome on the engine reverse shaft looks neat but is maybe more shine than we need.
The vent duct elbows over the aft top of the engines are probably a lot tighter radius.
The flex joint disks in the LP exhaust would be riveted at the rim and at the pipe flange. I think that makes 40,100 rivets.

My own view for the starting platform controls is to stay with the Belgenland style:
-aft column: telephones and winch aft
-middle column: desk facing aft, 4 telegraphs facing the desk, 2 clocks and the temperature reading box
-forward column: gauge board, boiler room controls and winch forward. I'd only put about 5 gauges on the board. Note that in Ralph's destroyer picture there are 4 telegraphs (2 black/silver), a rev counter and a clock so there are only 6 main gauges left.

Bill

  

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Ralph CurrellTue Oct-17-17 06:08 PM
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#55543, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Hi Bill,

With reference to the destroyer pic, the black/silver instruments are combination tachometers and revolution counters (one each port & starboard). I'm not sure what the big centre counter indicates. There is another board (facing forward) for the boiler room gauges and telegraphs. Other gauges show up at various locations throughout the engine room; next time I visit I may try to take a complete inventory.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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Bill WestTue Oct-17-17 07:47 PM
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#55544, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 6


          

Thanks for the correction on the black/silver instruments, I had recently seen some electric telegraphs of that appearance.

Bill

  

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SteveFurySat Oct-21-17 01:00 AM
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#55554, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 7


          

Thanks for all the input and information.

As posted in the other thread, I built a winch but it's not exactly what was in there- but it will need to suffice. I think it's pretty close anyhow.

The desk really doesn't work well between the aft columns because of the stairs. Unless the desk is within a foot or two of the aft pillar- but the desk isn't shown in that position on the Olympic telephone photo.
The stairs pose a problem because if someone was working at the desk, it would be a "excuse me" for someone to pass through that corridor.
My desk is 2'10"W x 2'4D. I figure a decent size for a ledger.

As a compromise I mounted the telegraphs on the center column, and the desk at the after end of the forward column.

I made a simple gauge board and put it above the desk.
I think this will have to do. I like how it looks but maybe the telegraphs should be a bit smaller. The handwheel above the desk controls the ventilation fans up above:





Thanks for lookin'

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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SteveFurySun Oct-22-17 01:01 AM
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#55555, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 8


          

I've been working to fine tune the lighting today, riveted the shell plating and a few other things.

I thought the below rendering came out particularly well. The interior lighting is reduced to 16% which is very low, you can see things in the room clearly but its not bright at night without sunlight.
I did some experimentation with the sunlight: I figured that with the ship heading west in the spring then the sun would probably ride along the southern side of the ship. Therefore I placed the sun a few degrees port as if the middle of the day.

It shines down through the glass panels on the Boat deck, down through the catwalks etc and then bits of sunlight illuminate the floor. I was surprised to see how it brightened up the whole place as seen below:



Which brings some new questions if you don't mind.

1. I will need to animate the sunlight to simulate pitch & roll, also animate hanging chains. Does anyone know (or guess) the degree extremes port to starboard the ship would roll in "normal" seas?
2. How long would it take to cycle a full roll? Pretty slow I guess.
3. Are the cylinder heads bronze?
4. The main HP steam input and the LP exhaust appear to go through rubber (or the like) flexible joints. I assume one reason they exist is to allow a certain amount of engine movement especially at the top. If the tops of the engines were expected shift a little during operation, then by how much (in inches/fraction of inch)at the cylinder head tops? Or should they be rigid and unmovable? Even a slight movement will need to be animated.

My BR1 rendering should be finished in a few days. Once it's done then I'll need to shift my attention over to there for editing & production.
Rendering this high poly ER will take several months (3 machines running 24/7). Once I start it then it can't be changed. Lots of work left to do there, that's why so many questions.

Thanks in advance!

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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Joe100Sun Oct-22-17 03:59 AM
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#55556, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 9


          

Absolutely gorgeous!

  

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Ralph CurrellSun Oct-22-17 09:15 AM
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#55557, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 10
Sun Oct-22-17 09:29 AMby Ralph Currell

          

Hi Steve,

The sunlight effect is very good! However I don't think that the angle of the sun would be anything near vertical at the date and location of Titanic's voyage. A rough estimate would be about 55 degrees above horizontal; if you're interested I can try to work out something more precise.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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SteveFurySun Oct-22-17 02:13 PM
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#55560, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 11


          

Thanks for the offer Ralph. You're probably right about the sun position but I think I'll keep it streaming in for the nice effect.
-Steve

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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Ralph CurrellSun Oct-22-17 03:37 PM
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#55561, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 12


          

Hi Steve,

To answer your questions about the rolling of the ship, there's a video clip of Olympic in moderately heavy seas at http://www.gettyimages.ca/videos/513650496 . I don't know if Titanic's voyage was ever this rough, but you can get a sense of how quickly she rolled.

From the video I would guess a period of about 7 or 8 seconds. I understand there are mathematical formulas to calculate this, and I'd be interested know if anyone has worked it out for Titanic.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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Bill WestMon Oct-23-17 02:55 AM
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#55563, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 13


          

Hi Steve, for your Saturday post that's all looking very good. With your desk dimensions I now see the poor fit with the staircases. Just a thought however, from the Britannic drawings I get 10' between the LP exhaust pipes or 5' for each side. At the floor level, allowing 2' for a stair that starts against the LP pipe and 12" for half of a quartet of telegraph heads on the room column leaves one with 2' for walking between them and the stair. So maybe there could be enough room for the desk against the middle column. I think 24" width and 24" depth for the desk might be enough. In this Photobucket picture the stairs aren't particularly wide and do end a few feet short of the room column.



For Sunday's post the sun light effect looks very nice, I hadn't thought of much light getting down there. Anybody have the weather report for April 14?
And the questions:
1. I will need to animate the sunlight to simulate pitch & roll, also animate hanging chains. Does anyone know (or guess) the degree extremes port to starboard the ship would roll in "normal" seas?
2. How long would it take to cycle a full roll? Pretty slow I guess.
For Ralph's film clip, aside from the lady at the front clowning and despite the sunshine, that's fairly rough seas from a passenger's viewpoint. The shot with the gent near the end is more realistic for mild weather. For angle, a mere 10 degrees is easy to stand in but if you are walking about it can happen mid step and catch you off guard. For roll periods I think nearly a minute is more typical today, but maybe your time should be based on your viewer's attention span and thus the length of your video clip.

3. Are the cylinder heads bronze?
No, here we are either in warm air and dry or are saturated wet with the rust causing oxygen excluded by the steam. Also the HP cylinder head has 230 tons force on it, bronze construction would be difficult.

4. The main HP steam input and the LP exhaust appear to go through rubber (or the like) flexible joints. I assume one reason they exist is to allow a certain amount of engine movement especially at the top. If the tops of the engines were expected shift a little during operation, then by how much (in inches/fraction of inch)at the cylinder head tops? Or should they be rigid and unmovable? Even a slight movement will need to be animated.
The engines don't move. There used to be a low bass note thumping in the hull from engine unbalance in earlier ships but better engineering stopped that. The expansion joints are steel disks and are for pipe expansion from cold to running temperatures. A careful look at the following Pinterest picture shows the riveting at the pipe joints and the rim of the flex joints. Most of it is probably covered by lagging.



Bill

  

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Ralph CurrellMon Oct-23-17 02:10 PM
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#55564, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 14


          

Steve and Bill,

Further information for the ship's roll comes from the report of Leonard Peskett (Cunard's naval architect) on an Olympic voyage in August 1911. He states that the ship rolled 3 to 5 degrees taking 18 to 20 seconds for a complete roll, the sea that day being described as 'moderate'. He also mentions that the rolling behaviour would change during the course of the voyage as coal and water was expended.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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c rileyThu Nov-02-17 07:50 AM
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#55629, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 15


          

I have been reading Mark Chirnside's excellent "RMS Olympic" book this week. In the chapter describing the inquiry into her collision with the Fort St George in 1924, very interesting testimony was given on the procedures on how to start Olympic moving from a dead stop or turn her, or bring her to a stop was given by Olympic's Chief Engineer John Thearle. In the testimony, Thearle "describes the situation in the Engine Room in some detail" "confirming there were two clocks, an electric clock and a spring clock-mounted on one big stanchion in the centre of the main engine room." This is on page 207 in my copy of Chirnside's book. I see you have a clock above the desk, and I know this was Olympic in 1924, but I thought maybe this little detail might be interesting to you for your awesome project. Great work by the way.

Regards,
C Riley
Cecil Riley

  

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Ralph CurrellThu Nov-02-17 11:23 PM
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#55630, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 16


          

Hi Cecil,

Thanks for that bit of info. We had been wondering in an earlier thread if one of the clocks might indicate Greenwich Mean Time. But the use of the two types of clock seems to imply they would normally indicate the same time, with the mechanical clock as a back-up in case the electric one failed. That is my take on it anyhow.

I assume the clocks seen in the Belgenland engine room photo would also be one electric and one mechanical, as they are slightly different in appearance.

I can't recall if this has been mentioned before but one of Olympic's engine room clocks (the mechanical one, I think) is held by the National Maritime Museum, and can be seen at http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/206016.html . Helpfully, they give dimensions.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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SteveFurySat Nov-11-17 05:05 AM
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#55646, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 17


          

I created a 360 account at Momento360, let me see if this link works. If it does then I think you'll find it interesting:

https://momento360.com/e/u/c84b9c0ca4ce45baa1901e1e46b377a7?utm_campaign=embed&utm_source=other&utm_medium=other

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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SteveFurySat Nov-11-17 06:30 AM
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#55647, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 18
Sat Nov-11-17 06:32 AMby SteveFury

          

That seemed to work out OK so here are a few more.

Most of my time these days are occupied with setting up and quick rendering the 2d walk-through camera-fly-through of the boiler room 1 and reciprocating rooms.

Really, I just stumbled upon the Momento360 website which offered a free beta account. It is one of the few 360 posting services which respect copyright.
I'm not sure if they will end up charging for the service in the future. If so then these links may be broken. Enjoy until then.

Below were test renders: I'd render them and look around in 360 stereo wearing the GearVR and spot problems to fix. These have what is likely an incorrect electric winch version which I plan to change, some strange rivet heads, collisions (Objects through objects), wrong cyl head textures etc. But pretty cool anyway:

Floor level, aft:
https://momento360.com/e/u/68f8fcd965d44a83a311c246e55a3df2?utm_campaign=embed&utm_source=other&utm_medium=other

Catwalk at the main steam cut-off valves:
https://momento360.com/e/u/f97e7f2778744a2cb1a86622fd8420ce?utm_campaign=embed&utm_source=other&utm_medium=other

Catwalk against the forward bulkhead:
https://momento360.com/e/u/34bbbbcded3f44cca3808bbffa970b88?utm_campaign=embed&utm_source=other&utm_medium=other

Catwalk at the base of the 2nd set of ladders:
https://momento360.com/e/u/ae7f207808ec4daebd2b6944514727c0?utm_campaign=embed&utm_source=other&utm_medium=other

Cylinder head level:
https://momento360.com/e/u/66143f3aee77426eab70e75c6bd05ef9?utm_campaign=embed&utm_source=other&utm_medium=other

Pumps port side:
https://momento360.com/e/u/ad4c18dcf7dc45f2a6c04709b6ec6d31?utm_campaign=embed&utm_source=other&utm_medium=other

Pumps starboard:
https://momento360.com/e/u/2c94c1ab4cb6407dbd60a31c63d7018d?utm_campaign=embed&utm_source=other&utm_medium=other

Be sure to click the image and drag to rotate. The square on the right switches to fill screen mode.

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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Ralph CurrellSat Nov-11-17 01:30 PM
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#55648, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 19


          

Hi Steve,

Wow, those are looking good! I could spend a lot of time admiring the views on my monitor. With VR goggles I expect they are stunning.

Since you are making corrections, there's one thing I can suggest to make it fit a bit better into the 1912 era. The chequer pattern on the flooring plates would have been an elongated diamond type, as shown here:


I think 1 inch wide by 2 inches long was typical for the diamond size. According to one source, the long axis was oriented fore-and-aft in engine rooms, and athwartship in boiler rooms.

If you haven't seen it, Bob Read has posted a possible replacement for the electric winches at http://titanic-model.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=100&topic_id=55539&mesg_id=55642

Regards,
Ralph

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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Bill WestSun Nov-12-17 02:31 AM
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#55649, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 20


          

Hi Steve, I thought you might have been burning the midnight oil these past few weeks. The Momento360 site worked out great.

I don't know where to start with the compliments on your project, you have done wonders for the rest of us in being able to tour through this great room that has been a semi mystery all these years. I haven't been in a lot of engine rooms but your rendering overwhelms me with its realism and authenticity.

I find it interesting that we have gone from the clarity of some of the plumbing isometrics you made to the reality of the room being so full of pipes, gratings and machines that is actually very hard to see the organization of the systems. Even your early work that gave our first over all views of the engines in their finished form is getting obstructed with the other equipment in place. Maybe your project will have a place to show some of these features isolated from each other?

Also there are a number of petty details that we could debate here but I feel that if you create it you get to make the final choice so I don't see starting a nit-pick over them. I just trust that future viewers will appreciate that some of this is collective best guess rather than confirmed fact.

Have you considered inserting stock human figures in here? I'm thinking that having some fellows in dirty white boiler suits wearing black caps might look good leaning on the desk or tightening a bolt or oiling something might help give a sense of scale in the views.

I countered your realistic lighting for a while by turning my monitor way up, it helped me appreciate much more of the detail. That will be a conundrum of making the views authentic.

Again many thanks for treating us to such a grand show!!

Bill

  

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SteveFurySun Nov-12-17 10:29 AM
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#55650, "RE: Reciprocating room CG #2"
In response to Reply # 21


          

Thank you, you're very kind.

I noticed that if those links are viewed in a smart phone that it is Google Cardboard ready. I highly suggest going to Walmart (etc) and picking one up ($5 or so) because the experience of physically looking around is unique.

Like many/all of us here, I've had a technical fascination about the Olympic class ships since a kid. I've never been in any marine engine spaces except quick tours of naval vessel exhibits. Therefore the level of detail wouldn't be there without this community's guidance.

There's errors I'm aware of (Such as the HP cylinder exhaust port shape, general pipe dimensions, missing and odd size pipe joints etc) and many more inconsistencies. I think, for example all the pipes would be wrapped in asbestos & painted white. So much more which could be done. Maybe I'll revisit this project in the future.

Like many here, I was hoping these spaces portrayed in Cameron's movie would have been more historically accurate. That was a big inspiration for this project. I am in turn hoping that there's another 3D person with much more talent/knowledge than I can see what I've done and do something better.

As mentioned, there are levels of detail which are hidden. But they are still important. Think of your favorite music with an obscured instrument playing in the background. It may never be noticed until it stops playing. The camera may catch a corner of something- Or even just rods or connecting piping that provide the detail. All the little things contribute to the whole.

I'm working on a video to try to show the position within the ship of Scotland Road, the tour of BR1 and the reciprocating room, up the casing and out on the Boat deck. Little fun facts along the way as to point out the function of certain valves, what the pumps in view do, engine controls etc to try and keep it interesting.

I plan to isolate different things at the end, such as the reciprocating engine and associated parts such as drain cocks, the governor, reversing mechanism, the major piping systems etc.

It will end up longer than a person's usual attention span so I think it will appeal mainly to the die-hard Titanic fans. I think it may be pretty boring for most others.

My reason for building this model/video is also a selfish one. I'll be retiring in about 4 years. It will be posted on my YouTube page, in hope of generating some post retirement work.

Time-wise, the video release is still a long way off.
I'm still working out the story board for what will likely be a 40,000 to 60,000 frame movie. If I recall each frame takes about 30 minutes on average to render. Three computers share the load... Then onto editing, producing etc so you can see it will take a while.

Once that's all done and out of the way then I hope to produce a 360 stereo version. Those frames take more than an hour to render. Wow!

Well, I'm rambling on- sorry about that.
Thank you for looking.

Steve Fury
from Atlanta,GA USA

  

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Titanic artwork at top of page is owned and copyright of Stuart Williamson and is used with permission.