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Top The TRMA Discussion Forum topic #55570
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Subject: "Fwd Staircase Dome covers 400 and 401" Previous topic | Next topic
Michael 400Wed Oct-25-17 04:00 AM
Member since May 19th 2014
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#55570, "Fwd Staircase Dome covers 400 and 401"


          

Hi Bob, Ralph and all researchers,

I just checked Bob Read's plan website with his latest changes and have a question regarding Olympic's and Titanic's Fwd Staircase Dome covers.

Bob's correction of the new arrangement of the fwd portholes and porthole covers of Olympic is well documented by photographs.
The former existence and deletion of the aft portholes and porthole covers of Olympic is hard to verify by myself with the common photographs in books, etc.
But I am aware, that many people have better evidence by owning larger photographs, etc.

My question is about the aft portholes of Olympic and Titanic: should I delete the aft portholes of Titanic's Fwd Dome cover, too?

Titanic in photographs, pages 130, 131 seems to show a aft porthole, but it is to small to verify, it could be also the aft duct, etc.

In 2015 I completed the two dome covers, but I would correct them, as the models are still not finished and the covers are separate parts.

Bob's most accurate research over this very long timeframe at TRMA, TTSM 1 and 2 and his plan website is very helpful for any serious modeler.

Thank you very much.
Best regards,

Michael

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: Fwd Staircase Dome covers 400 and 401, bpread, Oct 25th 2017, #1
RE: Fwd Staircase Dome covers 400 and 401, Henry J., Oct 25th 2017, #2
      RE: Fwd Staircase Dome covers 400 and 401, bpread, Oct 25th 2017, #3
           RE: Fwd Staircase Dome covers 400 and 401, Michael 400, Oct 26th 2017, #4
                RE: Fwd Staircase Dome covers 400 and 401, bpread, Oct 26th 2017, #5
                     RE: Fwd Staircase Dome covers 400 and 401, Michael 400, Oct 26th 2017, #6

bpreadWed Oct-25-17 07:04 AM
Member since Sep 29th 2003
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#55571, "RE: Fwd Staircase Dome covers 400 and 401"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Oct-25-17 07:07 AMby bpread

          

Hi Michael:
An aft porthole on Titanic's grand staircase dome weather cover was identified quite a few years ago with the fitting out photo shown below. There is no indication that any shutters were used over them like Olympic had.
Olympic was more difficult to confirm. Mainly photos from above had to be used. Although the quality of the photo below isn't the best, if there had been aft portholes on Olympic's cover, at least part of them could be seen in this photo if you compare the appearance of the side portholes with their dark shutters.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/35267392@N06/24071964648/in/dateposted-public/" title="GSC4"><img src="" width="1024" height="1000" alt="GSC4"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Regards,
Bob Read

  

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Henry J.Wed Oct-25-17 02:55 PM
Member since Nov 28th 2009
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#55578, "RE: Fwd Staircase Dome covers 400 and 401"
In response to Reply # 1


          

Hi Bob,
I don't wish to question established knowledge, but my spontaneous impression when looking at that "porthole" in the Titanic photo is that it is sitting at the end of a 1-2 foot long white cylindrical tube that is protruding from the white wall. The photo is not clear, and my eyes could deceive me, but I would have guessed that the black dot is the end of a ventilation tube. If it is indeed a porthole, what use would a single porthole have in that position?

This is just my spontaneous impression from looking at that photo tonight, nothing I have researched myself.

Regards,
Henry

  

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bpreadWed Oct-25-17 03:20 PM
Member since Sep 29th 2003
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#55579, "RE: Fwd Staircase Dome covers 400 and 401"
In response to Reply # 2


          

Hi Henry: what you are seeing below the porthole is the motor for the 20 in. Sirocco fan which is to port of the stokehold vent. This vent motor is not directly below the porthole. It is outboard of it.
Regards
Bob Read

  

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Michael 400Thu Oct-26-17 05:02 AM
Member since May 19th 2014
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#55583, "RE: Fwd Staircase Dome covers 400 and 401"
In response to Reply # 3
Thu Oct-26-17 08:37 AMby Michael 400

          

Hi Bob and Henry,

thank you very much for your input regarding this issue.

Yes, the Titanic seems to have a porthole at the after end, port side. The 20 inch vent behind is identical on Olympic and Titanic. The black dot should be a porthole, it couldn't be part of the vent. The aft center ventilation of the dome cover is in the center, not in the black dot area, and there is nothing more in this area, so I am convinced about a porthole, or most problably two symmetrical portholes at the after end.

The arial photograph of Olympic, I assume from the 1920/30ties should have a porthole in the area of the ventilation hood, and the shutter inboard of it should be visible, so there seems to be no porthole there, and no shutter. If the shutter would be closed, it would be hidden by the vent cowl like the porthole, but then the dark sliding rails should be visible, which isn't the case. Between the 20 inch vent cowl and the side wall of the large stokehold vent there is a vertical black shadow before the white wall of the dome cover. It is a bit left of the center. It is too big to be a dark sliding rail of the shutter. With a high sun from aft/starboard, I think, it is the shadow of the rectangular aft center ventilation duct of the dome cover.

So, I agree to the evidence, two aft portholes Titanic, no aft portholes and no shutters Olympic. It makes sense, that Olympic had two portholes front, four on both side, and no aft, because the aft side is overshadowed by the funnel and stokehold vent. The evidence, that Titanic had quite the opposite configuration of only two portholes aft seems hard to understand, maybe they want to equalize the sunlight in the dome, so they omitted the front/side portholes in the sunlight area and added the aft ones on Titanic. Nevertheless evidence is evidence, and the differences between Olympic and Titanic are hard to understand in many cases.

So, thank you Bob, for your clarification.

Best regards,

Michael

Addition:
Titanic: the dark vertical shade Henry mentioned is directly behind the black dot. For me it is the gap between the vent motor and the vent housing/cowl.

"Directly behind that gap, I can see the vent cowl nearly reaching the height of the dome cover. Behind that, there is a slight shadow of the vent cowl on the dome cover wall. Like all the 20 inch vent cowls it is open aft side." -> nonsense, see below, imagined shadows could be the vent housing, not the later installed and higher cowl.

  

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bpreadThu Oct-26-17 06:54 AM
Member since Sep 29th 2003
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#55584, "RE: Fwd Staircase Dome covers 400 and 401"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Hi Michael:
Since this is a fitting out photo of Titanic, the cowl attachment and its vertical duct have not been installed at this time.
Regards,
Bob Read

  

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Michael 400Thu Oct-26-17 07:52 AM
Member since May 19th 2014
204 posts
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#55585, "RE: Fwd Staircase Dome covers 400 and 401"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Hi Bob,

of course, you are right, the vent cowl of this 20 inch vent is more than 3 feet higher than the dome cover (and I modeled it in that way, so I don't understand why I imagined this shadow-nonsense), the hazy shadows could be only from the 20 inch vent housing or the center duct, if installed. I marked it above, to make it clear.

Thanks, best regards,

Michael

  

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