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Subject: "Campania canvas on Promenade deck." Previous topic | Next topic
JasonWed Jan-31-18 04:04 AM
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#55777, "Campania canvas on Promenade deck."
Wed Jan-31-18 09:29 AMby Jason

  

          

Hi

I have a couple of photographs showing seamen apparently stowing a canvas curtain of some kind, on the promenade deck of either Campania or Lucania.

Here is a detail from one of the photographs:



In the other photograph there are several men perched on the same railing performing a similar task.

Can anyone shed any light on this canvas, and what it may have been used for?

/Jason

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck., Ralph Currell, Feb 01st 2018, #1
RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck., Jason, Feb 01st 2018, #2
RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck., Ralph Currell, Feb 01st 2018, #3
RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck., mauretania1906, Feb 02nd 2018, #4
      RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck., Ralph Currell, Feb 03rd 2018, #5
           RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck., mauretania1906, Feb 03rd 2018, #6
           RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck., Ralph Currell, Feb 03rd 2018, #7
           RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck., Jason, Feb 04th 2018, #8
                RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck., mauretania1906, Feb 04th 2018, #10
           RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck., Jason, Feb 04th 2018, #9
                RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck., mauretania1906, Feb 04th 2018, #11
                     RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck., Ralph Currell, Feb 05th 2018, #12
                          RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck., mauretania1906, Feb 07th 2018, #13
                               RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck., Ralph Currell, Feb 09th 2018, #14

Ralph CurrellThu Feb-01-18 09:21 AM
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#55781, "RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Hi Jason,

Nice photo! We see similar canvas screens on Titanic and Olympic. I assume their purpose was to protect the passengers on the promenade from rain, wind or direct sunlight, if the weather conditions warranted it.

That rectangular object hanging from the deck beams interests me. Would that be some sort of portable wind screen?

Regards,
Ralph

  

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JasonThu Feb-01-18 11:54 AM
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#55782, "RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Thanks. I guessed it was something like that. It crossed my mind if it was to block spray from waves in rough weather also.

The picture is taken on the port side looking aft, and the rectangular object is some sort of extra storm door, as it it is hinged over the double doors of the grand entrance. I guess it was used in very rough weather to protect the finer but weaker doors from wave damage.

  

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Ralph CurrellThu Feb-01-18 11:24 PM
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#55783, "RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck."
In response to Reply # 2


          

Hi Jason,

Okay, thanks. That makes sense. I saw something similar in a photo of a German liner, but in that case it seemed to be used as a wind break.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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mauretania1906Fri Feb-02-18 06:53 PM
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#55791, "RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

Hi Jason,

I don't say here but there is also the canvas put up during coaling procedures.

Best,
Eric

  

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Ralph CurrellSat Feb-03-18 03:37 PM
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#55795, "RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck."
In response to Reply # 4


          

Hi Eric,

The question of coaling came to mind when I was looking at that canvas screen. But were such screens actually used when taking on coal? Any photos I've seen of large liners coaling seem to show no extra canvas, at least on the promenade decks.

I wonder if the horror stories of coal dust everywhere were more common with warships and smaller vessels that used deck scuttles for loading coal. The side ports used on the big liners would, I imagine, reduce the dust problem on the ship's upper decks.

Jason, did Campania and Lucania have coaling ports in the shell side, or did they use deck scuttles?

Regards,
Ralph

  

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mauretania1906Sat Feb-03-18 07:44 PM
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#55797, "RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck."
In response to Reply # 5
Sun Feb-04-18 09:18 PMby mauretania1906

  

          

Hi Ralph, Jason,

Here are some images showing the canvas after coaling and during coaling - I have many more, but these two are sharp, clear and early. The first shows her after her first arrival at Liverpool on October 24th, 1907 - this date is confirmed by the Peskett album sold by Kenny Schultz many years ago. I recall that candid mentioned a "jolly trip" on her "North About" delivery trip which I wrote about in my article at Eric Sauder's site (Figure 20, linked below).

http://www.northatlanticrun.com/735/Tyne_Departure.html

I have a rare photocard (not shown here) showing the coaling at Liverpool - taken just after, perhaps for the coming trials. I would also say perhaps MV, but that barge with "Cunard" on the side is there, and it is in three Oct. 24th images including the one shown here:


I had to correct the date of the Liverpool image. I was thinking 22nd for some reason, but it actually shows the morning of October 24th.
The second photocard I identified as November 3rd on formal trials, also showing the canvas and coaling in progress. This was a Priestley Brothers image and is very, very scarce.

Best,
Eric

  

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Ralph CurrellSat Feb-03-18 08:41 PM
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#55798, "RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck."
In response to Reply # 6


          

Hi Eric,

Very nice pics. It is curious that they have covered the promenade deck and left the shelter deck open. Would there be any other reason, such as last minute fitting out work, to screen the promenade deck on those dates?

Regards,
Ralph

  

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JasonSun Feb-04-18 01:51 AM
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#55799, "RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck."
In response to Reply # 6
Sun Feb-04-18 04:16 AMby Jason

  

          

Hi Eric

Thanks a lot for that Eric.

Perhaps these canvasses had several functions then, including protecting the promenade from dust. The reason I think that is because the picture of Campania I posted was taken at sea, where there is no coaling. In addition, it's one of a series of photos that includes a snapshot of quite a rough ocean which may have brought wind, rain and spray onto the deck.

My guess is that as well as protecting from coal dust during coaling, the canvas was also used to protect from bad weather as Ralph suggested. I imagine that if there were a strong wind accompanied by rain blowing abeam, that could create unpleasant conditions for the passengers. Also, these earlier vessels like Campania had a low air draught, so the promenade deck was more vulnerable to waves. It was only about 25' above the waterline.

There seem to be very few images of Campania's lower promenade deck (labelled confusingly as as the "Upper Deck"). This deck was only about 16 - 18' above the waterline, although it was protected by a bulwark. Initially, when Campania had a forward well-deck, there were problems with flooding along this lower promenade when in high seas, so much so that the ship eventually had to go back to the builders to have the well-deck removed and the first part of the lower promenade plated in. This gave the front of the ship a unique appearance among its contempories; a design feature inherited several years later by Lusitania and Mauretania.

/Jason

  

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mauretania1906Sun Feb-04-18 04:40 PM
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#55806, "RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck."
In response to Reply # 8
Sun Feb-04-18 11:33 PMby mauretania1906

  

          

Hi Jason, Ralph,

I am not aware of any last minute fitting out as Ralph suggested. I do know the canvas was not up during North About from what the photographic record shows. Photographs from earlier on October 22nd do not show it. I do have several photographs that do not show coaling so I agree - both uses as Jason mentioned.

Best wishes,
Eric

  

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JasonSun Feb-04-18 03:01 AM
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#55800, "RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck."
In response to Reply # 5
Sun Feb-04-18 03:01 AMby Jason

  

          

Hi Ralph

The ships were coaled through ports along the hull, quite close to the waterline in fact.



/Jason

  

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mauretania1906Sun Feb-04-18 07:33 PM
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#55807, "RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck."
In response to Reply # 9
Sun Feb-04-18 08:06 PMby mauretania1906

  

          

"...quite close to the waterline in fact..." - Jason

Perhaps a bit too close! From a manuscript I was writing long ago, this is 1916:
"...Once again called up by the Admiralty with the newly assigned identification prefix and number combination "G1620" (photographed at Halifax 11/16), Mauretania made two additional crossings in October and November, carrying 6,214 Canadian troops from Halifax to England and ultimately the Somme. At one point, two days out of Liverpool, she was nearly lost. A surviving engineer from the Lusitania sinking discovered that Mauretania was taking on water through her bunkers. Her coal ports were not properly "dogged down" at her home port and she assumed a dangerous list until her pumps rectified the situation..."

  

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Ralph CurrellMon Feb-05-18 05:46 PM
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#55811, "RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck."
In response to Reply # 11


          

Hi Eric,

I was not aware of that incident. A more serious mishap of that nature occurred with the troopship America (formerly the Amerika of the Hamburg America Line) in late 1918, when her open coaling ports submerged and she sank at the pier.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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mauretania1906Wed Feb-07-18 06:13 PM
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#55818, "RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck."
In response to Reply # 12
Thu Feb-08-18 06:39 PMby mauretania1906

  

          

Here is Mauretania at that time in November 1916 at Pier No. 2 in Halifax with her drab transport grays of the day being applied:



"...Considered too expensive to operate, and with her usefulness uncertain, Mauretania was laid up at Arran in Gare Loch, not very far from where she completed her trials just ten years earlier. During a particularly heavy gale on the voyage north, she broke her mooring cables in the Mersey and drifted helplessly for some time, until running safely aground on a sandbank. The Mauretania was refloated and was placed in Gladstone Dock until her anchors could be recovered; then she continued on to Greenock. There she lay for nearly the whole of 1917.
The Mauretania was requisitioned again in 1918, first wearing a rather drab olive, blue and black scheme in March as recorded by the USN, but soon after, certainly by July 1918 at NY, she was wearing a bold rich blue, black and grey geometric dazzle scheme designed by Norman Wilkinson in the summer of 1917 (Wilkison did paintings for Titanic's public rooms). Mauretania was temporarily renamed "H.M.S. Tuberose" (or "Tuber Rose", according to her Captain Sir A. H. Rostron of Titanic fame). The H.M.S. Tuberose made 7 trips from NY early in 1918, carrying 33,610 American troops to Europe as a transport with 4 six-pound bag loaded guns mounted to the existing re-enforced platforms on her bow and 2 additional guns on her stern, finally armed with six of the twelve guns she was originally designed to carry. After the Armistice in November 1918 she was largely disarmed, losing her bow guns first, and she carried another 19,536 returning American and Canadian troops home. She was slowly repainted into Cunard colors and finally released from Admiralty service on May 27th of 1919. On June 1st the Mauretania returned to regular service sailing from her new home port of Southampton..."



Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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Ralph CurrellFri Feb-09-18 07:37 AM
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#55820, "RE: Campania canvas on Promenade deck."
In response to Reply # 13


          

Hi Eric,

Thanks, that's a nice pic. It looks like she's getting a paint touch-up on her bows.

Regards,
Ralph

  

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